There are many reasons why people find it difficult to discuss salaries, especially with your current employer. Most of us do not want to be seen as greedy and make them think we’re unhappy or ungrateful.
But, if you do not have tough conversations with your employer then how are they going to understand your thoughts, ambitions and worth?
Join us tomorrow, Wednesday at 2pm and learn how to take responsibility, establish a career trajectory with goals and gain control of your salary in negotiations with your current employer. See you then!
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Transcription (using Otter.ai)
Transcription (Raw Text)
Stephen Drew 0:10
Well,
we’re alive. My internet dies. I’m on the Wi Fi. I’m in the guest bedroom, but we’re doing it.
Will Ridgway 0:18
Nothing stops us.
Stephen Drew 0:19
Nothing stops us. That’s right, because today, we’re going to dive deep, deep well D. We’re going to talk about why it’s so important to talk about salary. why it’s important for both Ben and Bob, you have that difficult conversation. Preferably, make sure your internet works first. All right, 4321. Hello, everyone. And I like the old days. Oh, you’ve got McDonald company out there. I should just probably put up, I should change all this live. Isn’t that so? I got asked. Okay, here we go. How are you? Well,
Will Ridgway 1:06
yes, I am. I’m very good. Very good. How are you?
Stephen Drew 1:10
Living the dream apart from my internet going down. But the show goes on. And this is the point where I think that salaries, let’s talk about it. The idea of asking for more money in a conversation with your boss, to most people is a nightmare. I mean, just move this down a little bit. Well, so you can see me a little bit. There you go. So it’s a great conversation. Most people point out, most people are unsure where to go about it. When we were working together, you never asked me for a second. But if you did, it might have got one, you might have got one missed opportunity. Summary, it’s never missed opportunity can we can always work it out. So today, how do we negotiate salary? So for February do so let’s let’s do a little bit of an intro. So well. Who are you? How are you going to help us get into this question of how do we negotiate salaries?
Will Ridgway 2:07
Well, I’m well, and I work at McDonald’s and company as a recruitment consultant. And I am speaking to, you know, lots of people on a daily basis about salaries, you know, wherever you’re negotiating for the first time because you’re joining a company, or give me a piece of advice to say negotiate your salary first, and try and get a raise there before you decide to look elsewhere. So I’m very familiar with salaries, and hopefully I can be very helpful to anyone who is a little bit disappointed with their pay package at the moment.
Stephen Drew 2:36
Oh, wow. Okay, set the bar high. I love it. That’s amazing. So Meanwhile, we used to work together. So I am joined the architectural practice accurate alerion, as well as that I work on the architecture, social community. So over the years, I’ve done seven years recruitment, and I’ve worked in industry as well. And you’re right, well, there’s been a few times where I’ve asked for a salary increase as well. I’ve done it the right way of doing it the wrong way. But more importantly, together, we’ve seen a lot of people do it the right way. And we’ve learned that from salaries being rejected. So you don’t want to be rejected. And the first thing when I joked about with Well, maybe if you asked me, though, it was a part joke in there, but there’s a part crew. So first of all, the number one rule on how to negotiate salaries, you do actually have to have that conversation. Okay? There’s so many times that I’ve been approached when I was in recruitment by people who were looking for a salary increase, and they didn’t, one in a new job or salary increase. But first of all, they hadn’t asked their current employer for a salary increase. So that probably is a fantastic way to stop. Now, most people when they think of this idea of asking for a salary increase, they get in virus. Why? Okay, it may be it sounds great. We’re all British people. I think that in trends against our own nature is this. We have this culture of it’s almost inappropriate. This is the idea that it’s inappropriate to ask for a salary increase is the British way. You know, we don’t discuss salaries at a dinner table. You don’t do it because people get embarrassed. And I think the same kind of feeling comes about when got, I can’t ask my current employer for a salary increase, because that would be rude. That would be inappropriate. That would be an embarrassing or awkward conversation when it needs not been well, do you think do you agree that most people get worried about this? Yeah, absolutely. I
Will Ridgway 4:45
think people like you say feel a little bit greedy. I mean, salary, as you’ve said, is also quite a sort of a taboo topic. For some reason in Britain, you know, no one will talk about it. No one’s talking about it, the employer but at the same time, it’s something that you You should feel comfortable with doing. So make and you know, have these conversations about salaries, whether it’s for your employer or friends helps you know, where you should be at at the moment in terms of salary if you’ve been underpaid or overpaid, and then being comfortable to talk to your employer about how to resolve that. It’s very important for your own development. And I guess, overall well being because it’s not life isn’t cheap, it’s important to make sure that, you know, you’ve been paid for the work that you do appropriately. So yeah, I 100%. Agree. I think you’ve
Stephen Drew 5:34
hit the nail on the head. So first of all, we’ve established that you need to have this conversation. And we need to get round the mindset that is actually embarrassing or awkward, because actually, salaries is part of being a professional. And so that’s the first takeaway. But I want everyone who’s listening here. And by the way, this isn’t an interactive point. So if you’ve got a question for me on LinkedIn, or wherever you are on Youtube, you can ping it there. And me and we’ll we’ll answer it live pending that my internet doesn’t go, we will talk about it, why. And you can also send us a message on Twitch, which I believe because kind of anonymous, but I will only read that question out, if it’s appropriate. If you start sending me pictures, or I get weird stuff, we will not go through it. Okay, so let’s go back to this concept of being professional. So we need number one thing is to remove this idea embedded in our culture, that talking about salaries is awkward, we need to think of it instead of actually asking about salaries is part of being a professional. And so and also we you in life, with more responsibility, the further along you go in your career, your salary should, in theory aligned with that. So let’s talk about this together. So this is architecture theory. So I haven’t got my soundboard. But you know, if there was a gene galliera guide, architecture, it says salary for you. Okay, whoo. Okay, so why am I out of state? What is this concept one about regular again, we’ll get down to the nitty gritty, okay, so think about it this way you start your career,
you should be a part one salary, if you’re an architect will use architect, you start as a part one, okay? For I would say this, probably like in London, round 20,000. pants, okay. That’s where you start, you then go to university, you do another two years where you get unless you’re drinking less, you’re switched on, you’re kind of doing this stuff and you go back into the industry as a part two, you enter, then the salary of 30,000 pounds. So you’ve gone up 10, you know, 10,000 pounds, because there’s an increase, you get a qualified as a reason, architect, you’ve learned more stuff. You’ve done your ARV, you’ve got grey hairs. It’s amazing. It’s been a nightmare. But you’ve done it, and you should be proud. Okay, playing as though from the point when you’re a part one and two, as you’re an architect, and especially going forward, you’re running projects, right? You’ve got more and more responsibility. And this is the key thing that I want you to think about as salary shouldn’t be awkward. It’s part of being a professional, or what is being a professional is gaining more experience, taking more responsibility, and therefore being renumerated in line with the responsibility and the experience you got, oh my gosh, so easy. We can end the podcast right now. Well, there you go. Brilliant. Take vote Yeah, take more responsibility. And you should be, you should be able to have in theory should be on a higher salary. That’s the way the world works. Okay. That’s in theory, what it is, but people by nature, we’re all complicated. Okay? So what you’ve got to do is you’ve always got to think of these three, these three aspects, you’ve got the experience, you’ve got your responsibility and your worth, and you’ve got the salary. Now, what always tends to happen is over time, hopefully, your experience and responsibility sorry, because this is mirrored, should be going up. Okay. And it’s your role and duty to communicate with your employer that you’ve gained more experience, you have more responsibility. And now your salary needs to reflect that. Okay? So you need to constantly re affirm that and, and what you do need to do is that to get a higher salary. Now, think of it from a business point of view, if well comes up to me and he says, I don’t want any more experience. I don’t want any more responsibility and pay me a higher salary. I’m gonna be like, that’s not that incentivizing for me. Well, so The way that we’ll should do it is either get your own initiative and crack on with the work and gain more responsibility and gain more experience and then go, Steve, I’ve done x y, Zed. But I’m more, I’ve gone above and beyond and I got you how well, you’re amazing. And this is flashbacks work, because you were amazing that they go, right. Okay, we need to reflect that and you’re in the ration. The other thing as well, is that you can flip that around. So another technique that I think is really important when you’re talking about salary is that if you want to take a more expansive responsibility, and and gain more experience than ratchet that in a conversation with salary, you go, I just got my part free. I really appreciate, you know, the salary that I’m on now. But I am ambitious, I want to be ambitious here at will Ridgeway architects, I want to take it to the next level, we have a project coming in, I want to do I want to lead that project, I want to be the job runner for it. Okay. And in line with that, I’m looking for a job or in a salary. Oh, but maybe I’m gonna write it and go well, okay. So I’m happy to do this for six months, I’m having to build up my happy to take on more responsibility. And for the next three months, I’m going to do that. But in three months time, I would like a pay review alongside with my experience, well, if I run this residential project, the next three months, well, can we talk in three months about how good I’m doing on it? And the salary in line with that job and the experience?
Absolutely. Great, not great. Okay, so I turned a really awkward scenario into a scenario that certainly I’m leveraging it with well, so that’s where you want to do with your employer, what you want to do is say to them, you give me this you get back is much more, that’s more professional, you know. Now, if you’re taking more responsibility, and if you’re adding value to the business, hopefully you should be bringing in some kind of profit or revenue, there’s an upside to being there. their jobs are not there if they’re losing money, right. So if you’re adding value, and if you’re going above and beyond, or if you’re taking more responsibility, your salary will creep up in line with that. And if it’s not, you need to make your employer aware that suddenly you’re doing more responsibility, and you’re not financially renumerated in line with those responsibilities. And guess what, worst case, you don’t then get the salary, you’ve now got the experience and responsibility of that role, which means that you can go totally out to the rest of the market with that experience and command the salary that you were looking for. Easy, except that theory and in person. Yeah, it’s always more difficult. But you’ve got to start getting your head around that mentality, because that’s going to make it easier. So that’s the general way to go about it. Well, what’s your thoughts on that? And
Will Ridgway 13:13
you covered everything? You know, I think, yeah, I completely agree with everything that you said there. I think the timing is incredibly important, or when you ask for that raise, and the timing is influenced by I guess what you were talking about, Steve, about your current responsibilities, how they have changed, maybe since when you started at the company, or maybe for example, you know, your loss, or whenever you lost your race was, so maybe you got a salary raise when you got your IRB. But you notice like a year or two on that your responsibilities are slightly different. Now, they’re more advanced than what they were before yet your salary is the same. That’s a prime opportunity, and also prime reason of asking, or wanting to have a higher salary, because essentially, we’re doing more, you’re doing more work, doing more responsibilities, you’re adding more value to the company, yet you’re not being paid any extra for it. So it’s certainly worth your time to go in there. And, and ask for it, because it’s very unlikely that the employer will automatically just come around and say, well, Steve, you’ve been doing very well, we’ve seen this improvement, we’re going to give you a raise, it’s not always like that you generally have to ask these things. And that’s why we talked about the beginning about removing that stigma just going in. And I think what’s important as well is that asking for a raise is not actually that big of a deal for your employer, your employer, you know, is gonna be very naive if you think he or she thinks that, you know, everyone’s working here for fun. It’s not all about the money. Be honest if you have bills to pay, and so it’s important that you go in there with confidence because the employer is probably going to expect that you’re going to ask for a raise. If you’re organising a meeting with them. It’s going to be one of three things probably you either handing you’re noticing you’re asking for a raise. Or you’re complaining about some things, so they’re gonna be expecting it anyway. And it’s going to be less, you know, if they if they give you a raise, it’s not going to matter to them that much. And it’s quite, it’s gonna make a big difference to you. So go in there with confidence, don’t feel ashamed, go in there and ask what you think your wish,
Stephen Drew 15:19
hmm, good perspective. And I like that as well. And what’s important to talk about as well, because actually, if you leave a company, there’s a massive cost bearing to that as well, that not a lot of employers see at the time. So let’s run through this. So we think about it in terms of recruitment. So we’re a recruitment. And well, we were quite forthcoming about recruitment. So there’s a there’s a charge to finding someone new, as well as that now I work at accurate, Larry, on internal recruitment. So if someone leaves because of a conversation, because if not had a conversation about salary, felt, and the happier were there and laughed, and this was not brought up, then that’s, that’s a real shame for me as an employer’s perspective, because then we lose someone, we could have had that conversation, we could have set the bars, we can set targets, we could have set all that stuff, and in line with a salary or reflected it could based on the current thing, but when someone’s left, it’s almost a bit too late. And then suddenly, my time and energy has to go now on finding someone different, which has a massive cost to the business, because interviewing people takes time and money, and and, and how using recruitment consultants costs, because they are incurring their time and energy into finding someone. So the whole process of looking for someone is an expensive part of the business. So what what a business wants to do is that they want to keep ahold of people that they find really valuable. Now, who is going to be really valuable to the business. So in my opinion, it’s going to be someone that wants to constantly gain more experience, and get a take and take responsibility. That’s amazing. Those are the people that you want. And therefore, they’re the ones that you’re probably going to renew marae, right, and you should renew right from business perspective. Now what can happen is that we’re all human beings. And so sometimes, as from the business standpoint, there couldn’t be this scenario, that our business does not want to have that conversation with you about salaries, because they don’t want to, or they can’t afford it, or they don’t want to do and, okay, that’s not ideal. But when you ask for your salary, you can start to ascertain whether that’s the case, if he never asked before, you don’t know if a business is just being too busy. And they’ve kind of forgotten. Because it does happen sometimes where, let’s say, practice has got so many projects on there just dealing with getting these projects out the door. And suddenly you’ve been like, going above and beyond, and the pay hasn’t gone up. And and it’s so easy for that to get forgotten. But you that’s why it’s almost your duty. And this is why when I wrote the spirit of the today’s topic, or why it’s important for both parties for you to bring the salary up, it’s because chances are if you are, you know, kicking ass and taking responsibility and experience, they don’t want to lose you. And therefore in by talking about salary, you’re happy with what you’re talking about as your long term career prospects with the company. Therefore, it’s so important to talk about the salary you’re happy with. And you shouldn’t be awkward about it. Because what is a lot worse from an employer’s perspective is if they don’t know that you’re not happy, then suddenly you’re leaving, and they would have paid you the salary anyways. And I’m sure we’ve seen a lot of times where salaries get increased, just when you’re about to leave, and it’s too late, because you’re going out the door. So I think that it’s very important for you to bring us what you’re looking for in the salary where your current employer and give them the opportunity for to raise the salary, but you have to in return for our highest salary, you have to take more responsibility or accountability. So
architecture and recruitment is no different as in so that when I was an associate director in a recruitment company, well, you might be familiar with that or any other jobs I’ve had. Basically, if you’re a part two, you’re going to be doing hours and which are billable, okay. And if you perform in that and you’re keeping the project cost down, then you’re immensely valuable. And therefore, you know, you can be renumerated in the right way or there could be something there. So when I was an associate, now think about it this way, if I’m asking for more money, and I just want to do the same thing, that’s not really incentivizing. So I was kind of aware that when you ask for a higher salary, You’re asking, you have to back it up or take more responsibility and accountability. It’s very difficult. And I mean, I know there’s inflation in the world, but think about it in terms of yourself your career, you always want to be going forward. And so you don’t want to really be talking about in a job about getting paid five to 10 grand more for doing exactly the same thing, though, we’ll mood doesn’t work like that. So you have to think pragmatic about your current situation. And so my advice is for anyone out there is to think about what salary you should be, you should be going for a look about your current salary. And so you can the salary guides out there, and some are more accurate, and some are kinda like this. And you know, there’s certain companies which will quantify the salary day, so actually McDonald company you do? Well, so reserving probably more in the real estate development area than architecture. But the concept is that it’s a salary survey. And so that’s good. But when you’re talking about salaries with your current employer, well, you probably want to get one or two salary, you know, benchmarks on the market, but rather than just saying, like, oh, I’ve looked at this salary, I should be paid four grand more, pay me four grand more, you’ve got to it’s got, you’ve got to really talk about it in terms of like, okay, I’ve looked at it, this is the benchmark for that. But I’m not going to just talk about that. I want to take more experience more responsibility. And I want to then talk about this salary, if not more for this responsibility. Well, what would you say? So let’s join a roleplay. So I’m sorry, Andrew architects. You found out? So you’re an architect. Okay, you found out that you’re on 32. And so that’s why I paid you. And finally we both felt that was cool. But the last year, you’ve been doing more stuff, and you’re going online, then you get one or two recruiters talk to you about bigger salaries and all this stuff. We just finished the project. So I’m busy in the office. So okay, I we can flip this around. We’ll do it both ways as well. Right. So I’m role playing. So now I’m Stephen Drew, architects, they’re not
Unknown Speaker 22:27
come in.
Will Ridgway 22:29
I Steve, I wanted to talk to you about my salary. I’m currently on 32. And since you know my last salary, raise fy two, I was doing this particular job. But now I, you know, I’m taking on more responsibility. I’m leading certain packages of this large residential scheme. And I think I’m doing quite well as well. I’m hitting all my target and scan all the work done, it’s looking very good. And I feel like I should be aiming for a salary, you know, a lot higher than that, particularly as well, when I speaking to some friends as well who, in the industry, who were the same level as me, they’re earning around sort of Fe six level and same as well speak to recruiters, it’d be something that I’d be quite keen to push push on for was from their boardshort force and that
Stephen Drew 23:18
well, fair enough. But look, we’re it’s a tight ship here. Well, you know, and so you know, you’ve done this project there, you’re lucky that you did really well on that. So I really, look, I don’t want you to go anywhere. And you did well on that now. But look, there’s certain brackets. And you know, it’s all about where you are at the moment and what you want to do. So what are you saying to me you want? What are we talking about here? Are you going to use just what how much salary increase you want? Or where did you get this information from, and like what was going on? Here, I was in the middle of something, we’re going to talk about your salary,
Will Ridgway 23:56
I free I appreciate that. I appreciate that. I was having a look at the first of all the Rebbe guidelines, first of all, and then after speaking with a couple of mates, who are working, you know, various other practices in the UK as well. I, that’s where I’ve got my information from hand, appreciate, obviously, it’s quite a jump in salary. So what I’m willing to put in as well is to continue what I’m doing, but with the aim to not just lead packages, but lead, you know, larger parts of the project, if not all projects, because I’d love to have a project work and lead from start to finish, you know, I’m not just working on one particular stage. That’s where I want to be. That’s me and my next goal. And so that’s what I’m hoping to look for as well. And if that’s something you can give me, then that would be amazing.
Stephen Drew 24:43
Okay, good. So I like that. So that was that’s, I mean, I’m out of character right now for a second. I really like that because I think you went in but you you did the trade of you know, you said where your fat sources come from which was good because it got less airy, fairy And we all start off airy fairy around there. No, no, I thought you did a really good ground in there. And then you said trade off. So I’m going to go into character I go, alright, well, look, I don’t want to lose you. I love what you did before. So I’m more than happy to do that. And what I would say well, is you don’t have quite everything of like, I will see you as an associate, I want you to build you up as an associate. Yeah, they’ll pay out all of that right now. But I do think it’s within you. So how about starting off today, we increase your salary from 32 to 35. And then what we’ll do is we’ll get you doing more job rather than the schemes. And then in six months time, we will sit down and we will review it together. How are you getting on, and based upon how you’re building up with we’ll talk about where you are in the salary thing with a view to get you up to 40. But well, to get that though, I need to 40 billion the client. So you really need to be you know, doing x y Zed. And, you know, we need to set that up. So I think like, if we do it this way, well, then you’re building up to it. And we can we can assess how we get on. How’s that sound?
Will Ridgway 26:03
Yeah, that’d be perfect. Because I’m quite, I’m quite excited as well, the prospect of doing all this.
Stephen Drew 26:09
Amazing. Well, well done well, and we did that. for everyone. That’s really hard to do these roleplay and things. So well. I’m gonna we’re gonna do it. We’re gonna throw it the other way around. We’ve got a bit of fun with this. Okay, so you are in person and like the loveliest man ever, but what I want you to do now is be the scenario are really busy, slightly irritated, hard to get hold of, and you really don’t want to speak to me right now. And I’m going to, I’m going to try and wedge my way into a conversation. And so be difficult. And give me a little on Windows. But make me work for it. Like Yeah, in real life. So I’ll try to push it in. So okay, don’t say like in this scenario, Steve, I can’t speak to you right now. I’m going to the taxi. Bye. Okay, you need to give me a day, but make it difficult and Okay, I’m going to roleplay Alright, let’s go. Okay, so first of all,
Unknown Speaker 27:08
hey, well,
Stephen Drew 27:10
I know you’re busy right now. It’s important conversation, though. Can we have five minutes to talk?
Will Ridgway 27:15
I’ve got a run into a meeting in 15 minutes time. Don’t have time right now.
Stephen Drew 27:19
15 minutes is fine. It’ll take five minutes. We can do five minutes. You got 15 minutes. I’ll help you prepare for the beat in 15 minutes after the five minutes. Sounds good. Well, I use important Well, I promise. And now it’s important. Okay. Thank you. All right. Here you go. I was being pushy, though. Right. Okay. Right. Well, I love working. Well, Ridgeway associates, I don’t want to stop shopping around. I don’t want to do that. I’m loyalty, I care. I really care about what I do. Okay. When I started this role, I got paid for it, too. There’s people being paid higher. I’ve got them all here. Right? That’s not going to that keep it really straightforward. I want to keep working on where we were associates. You’re busy now going to this meeting. Let me help you on more projects. Let me take more responsibility. Okay, I want to become an associate. And I’ve got to prove that to you. And then you busy. Let me take some of the work off. So we’ve got this project coming up right now, then we jump on it, I will do everything. I’m happy to work a little bit extra. But in return to that I would like to start straight away 56,000 I’m not going to leave anywhere else. And I think that’s fair. Well, so can we bump up the salary from face to face six?
Will Ridgway 28:39
Well, I suppose I suppose or what have you done so far to you know, you know, obviously, this is what you want at the moment? What have you done so far to, you know, so that you can handle this type of project that we’ve got coming through?
Stephen Drew 28:52
Sure. So well, when I started on 32,000, that was a year and a half ago. Since then we’ve done two projects, you know, Riba stages to the sex before that I was only doing stage two, the free. I love the construction stages. I think now I can be a drop runner. Okay, so we’ve done the two residential before. I know I was working alongside Gary, Gary was impressed with what I was doing on our own. So now let’s do let me carry the next project forward. Okay. So our job brother in London, probably like 40,000 pounds. This is what the stats are well, but appreciate I need to be given the trends. So how about we start off with 36? based upon experience I’ve got before our cordoning. I’ll do the next project that’s coming in the pipeline. I’ll take it on. The two part two is on job. Renee will assess how I’m doing. If you don’t think I’m doing good. We can even begin go back. But I believe I can. I know I can. Well, you’ve got your meeting. And then we got to prepare, but how about we agree with we in principle, we move it to 56.
Will Ridgway 29:58
Okay, well, I have to have a chat with Have my partner. But we’ll see what we can we see what we can do with that we certainly want, you know, we don’t want to lose you, you’re a hard worker. And you know, we’ll see what we can do. And, you know, if you feel you’re ready to take on responsibility, I mean, you have done a good job. That’s right. We’ll see what we can do to get you that experience and get you that bump. And then happy to have those reviews over the course of the year. But let me have a chat, my partner will, will have a will get a confirmation of their or send you through. No, brilliant,
Stephen Drew 30:31
I know. That’s fine. I really appreciate that. I’ll follow up with email right now. I’ll speak with the Secretary and we’ll get the date in the diary. Well, well, and jack, you can sit down, we’ll go through it together. I get back, I coordinate, we put something in the diary. So I’m good. Perfect. Thank you very much. All right, well, I’m gonna help you get ready. Okay, so I push, I push, I push to, but you see what I was trying to do with the no songs to trying to get then I was trying to make it easy for you. But secretly, I wanted to put the diary, date in the diary to get that going. And so it’s quite locked, that was totally on the spot and scripted because I had problems before as well. But I think there’s a niceness to the exercise. Now you have to remember we’ll start it’s gonna be a little bit different than mine, my style is gonna be different than well, because we’re different people. But what I really loved about what we’ll did, is he came in a bit softer than me because he is a bit softer in nature. But you became a real facts, and you talked about salaries, we granted it, and we stayed up. Now mine was in a different scenario. And bear in mind, nothing is ever Perfect. Okay. But I was in the moment, I had to go for it. I set the scene. Well, what did you think about it the way I went about it?
Will Ridgway 31:51
Yeah, I like I liked sex. I think both both both are ways of quite contrasting yet. They’re both effective. I mean, for me, I was I was really trying to avoid failure. So I think how do I say no to this without being like, just like, not a
Stephen Drew 32:04
nice quote, I tried to corny you. But yeah, I knew the answers. And therefore, it’s not there’s a trend to get a balance between you because you don’t want to be aggressive. And I what I was trying to do as I was trying to, okay, in the in the analogy, it was being a little bit pushy. But what I was trying to do is back it up with gusto, and mo F and like, because you were busy, I wanted to jump in and solve problems. And therefore I had so in my head, I was trying to be like, well, rich way, I know you’re busy. But there’s problems here and I wanted to solve them. And one of the problems to solve is my salary, and I’m gonna keep happy. So how about, I saw all these problems, I get all these projects, you get an amazing kick ass, you know, project Doc, saying, I want me and we get a salary that I’m happy with. And we can review it together. Sound good?
Will Ridgway 32:57
Yeah, you know, it was perfect. Because it was, you know, you basically like you said, You solved every single one of the questions I could have come up with as an excuse to, like, delay it or put another time because you were just immediate like that. Now, we’ll do this, I’ll get the paperwork done, blah, blah, blah, and everything. Like there was literally no way I could probably say no, unless, of course, you didn’t have the experience to back up in like in the real world, for example. That’d be the only way that probably wouldn’t work. And I think you’ve got to work how it works for you. Because not everyone has the same competences do you do? You know, everyone has different way to approach it. But as long as you’ve got, you know, there’s facts in there, and you have an enthusiasm to grow and want to take on responsibility. It’s going to make it very difficult for your employer to say, No, you can’t have that race. And if if they do say no, you can’t have that race, then you’ll probably be able to find another job elsewhere that will give you all of that. And that’s when you can speak to me.
Stephen Drew 33:57
Hey, hey, these, oh my gosh, you made me laugh so much. That’s amazing. What I was trying to do with the analogy, though, and I can do one of them speak to me. And one of the things I like to do and one of the things that my coaching well in check the link out below the mean, you do very different things at the moment silent in recruitment as well. But one of the things that I try to back up when I speak to people and the whole point about this is that in the world, zero of our value gets zero back, there’s a trade off, okay? higher salary, they need a higher return. Okay, higher output, or profit, more profitability. Okay. So, if you’re running projects, and you’re part of the fabric and you offer value, that’s how you get the salary you will and you have to be very critical with your current situation. And you have to think about it from the employees perspective, and it’s a great exercise to do it. Think about it from a plant Have you? Why should they pay you 4000 pound more and be critical? Because the more critical you are, you know, it’s coming. So if I was a part two, and I had done nothing more in the two years that I was there Don’t laugh well, because I’m not saying is based great on the truth. But they say no, in the whole year, I didn’t know the more scales or I didn’t try it. And then my part free, it’s gonna be really difficult for me to ask you in a roleplay scenario, I go, Well, I’m looking for a salary raise. And he goes, Okay, right. Where do you get this from? I go, well, online, I’m here and the people on the highest salary. It’s only fair, I’m on 55. And I’m currently under 30. And well, if you said, Why would you do that? And I just got Well, that’s the current rate, and I’ve been here for a year. And then you know, that’s what’s fair, then that’s just, in my professional opinion, everyone listening here, it’s not stronger argument is, because it’s not incentivizing to the company. It’s not music to my ears, employer, I want to hear the above and beyond thing. You know, there’s that thing I liked in recruitment, where I, when I used to talk about salaries, I did get a salary increase twice in recruitment, where I’m just like, Well, of course, I’m going to the same energy, you mean, the ghost in salary going out there. That’s how I’m going to be out. And, you know, I strive myself in being the best professional, and part of being a professional as having these cricket conversations, you know, so when I’m on site, and I’m dealing with clients, and contractors, and all this stuff, I represent you, I represent well redress architecture. And now I’m representing me, and I want to work with you a long time. And therefore, if we talk about the salary, we talk about the actual responsibility, the direction of my career, and what I want to do to add value to will raise three associates, then, there you go, this is what I want to do. This is the conversation. This is one talking about salary increase, I want to do more, and I have done more already. I want to continue doing more. I don’t want to go anywhere else. I bring in this conversation with you first. I’m not shopping around well, and if you are, you should say it but you know, say I’m not shopping around, I care about will which associates, I wouldn’t mind Ridgeway drew one day, and I know I’ve got to earn that. And they could laugh, go, Oh, my God, you go, Wow, that’s my ambition. But you get it. That’s and this is a much more interesting conversation, then. Yeah, Reba approached, punch published the salary. And, you know, I, I want more. Now, if you’re grossly underpaid, then the scenario that I would do in this is to say, like, like, I started at 15k. I know I didn’t have experience. And so seeing this sometimes, like I’m gonna be really upfront with, you know, in the past, I’ve seen, maybe some people haven’t got experience in the UK, and they come with a lower salary and get UK experience. But the moment you have that experience, you can you can totally ratchet up your salary compared to everywhere else. And unfortunately, recruit architecture can be I think it’s a lot better right now. There’s a lot of stuff like the future architects from and there’s a lot of like, there’s a there’s a great and you’ll laugh. Well, there’s a great Instagram account online called archy shame. You know, unpaid internship is not, is condoned. And I think that’s really good. And we’re even looking at paying overtime, or one shout out to accurate, Larry, we pay overtime.
Will Ridgway 38:46
Yes.
Stephen Drew 38:47
So you know, there’s a lot is a lot of good things happening. And I think that this is, this is a really good conversation. But what I’m about right, if you were in, in, in a situation where, for instance, you didn’t have much experience in industry, and you took a salary lower than before. And then once you get that experience, then you can say, Well, now I have the experience. And now I want to continue doing more. Therefore, my salary needs to be brought in line with my existing experience and what I want to do, and so say, Now, you’re we’re 30, and you did 15, for whatever reason, because you just needed a job or you’re in an awkward situation, or you didn’t have experience in the UK. Now you do have experience in the UK. And you could be like, well, this is the salary. And so it’s absolutely fine to have that conversation. You don’t make a confrontational you just say like, like, I’m really grateful for the experience you got it was really helpful in my career. you’ve enabled me to get to this point. I’m just being transparent that now that my experiences as as kind of developed since then, and I still wanted to do more that we actually do need to bring it in line with all these salaries because it’s actually hard for me to ignore 10,000 pounds elsewhere. And London is competitive and it is hard to survive on minimum wage. I love working for well, Ridgeway associates. Now we need to bring it up in line with my experience. So good. So can we talk about the average of 30,000 pounds? Well, and then you’re asking, and this is the this is the hard bit is that when you’re in these are interview, sorry, when you’re talking in these meetings, it’s so hard not to fill the room with words, fill the air with words, and you have to, you have to, like, let the employer and you have to ask her a question, and it’s gonna be really scary. You say, Look, I’m looking for 30,000 pounds, how does that work? For you? Stop talking. And let the man sir, which is really scary. It’s very difficult.
Will Ridgway 40:50
It’s very difficult. It’s not something that comes easily even if you like, pump yourself up, you’re like, ready? I’m gonna do this. And then you’re in the moment you just like,
Stephen Drew 40:56
go. Yeah, and I think it’s about whenever you start panicking, you have to remind yourself that were to go back to the start of this show, cuz I think we’re kind of in the roundup area. Now. What, when we started talking about it, well, it’s salaries, it feels like an awkward conversation, it shouldn’t be awkward as part of being a professional, you need to remind yourself, you’ve been a professional, why is it important that you have this conversation for you and the employer, so that you can have this you can solve these problems? Before you leave in? Okay, it’s about having the conversation. I’m sure the company you know, if you’re adding value, they won’t want to lose you. So have to start having these conversations, and try to have them on the spot book a time and be really clear about it. Okay, be really clear about why you’re looking for the salary, what you’ve done, and where you want to go. As I always kind of weave who, what, where, when, and why. And to everything well, but you need to make a case. And the case needs to be about your personal growth and development. Because often in life, it’s like, imagine me, I’m selling you something, well, I go, this is five pounds, you go Okay, cool. Now I go, now it’s eight pounds, you go, Why the heck is it just gonna freak out I go, there you go is this same thing. God’s now decided you gotta go, I’m not buying it, maybe four or five pounds? Well, in life as a business, you need to show to that business, your value, and your value. As the more and more you’re in the office, the more more you’re learning, here picking stuff up all the time, the more and more responsibility you do, responsibility is the easiest way to to negotiate a salary because you take a more responsibility. It’s factually accurate. It’s not emotional. It’s not pie in the sky. It’s not indicative. It’s factual, you’re more responsibility and experience is greatly accumulates. But, you know, sitting in the office for 10 years doing the same role, yeah, you’re gaining more experience. But when you’ve got more experience with responsibility, that’s key. Now, an associate isn’t associated because they probably run projects, lead teams, they’ve done stuff, job running, it’s amazing, you see stuff all the way through that has a value, you have to offer a value. Being a team leader is scary, you know, when I did it, I wasn’t didn’t go on some grand course and had to do it, you kind of do it and you learn. But after it, now I’m more confident running the team as value. I’ve done the responsibility. And I can do it again. Therefore, a team leader, would that asset should be reflected in my salaries, especially from Team leading. But see, I’ve made myself eligible for these responsibilities, and therefore, my salary should reflect that. No one can ever take away experience and responsibility. And if you lose your job, and you lose your salary, then you go somewhere else with your experience, and all the responsibility that you get a salary in line. Well, what’s your thoughts? No, I
Will Ridgway 44:14
completely agree. As you said, it’s about for me anyway, it’s all about factual. You can’t just say, I’ve been here for x period of our time. And my work probably won’t you got to say, Well, if you’ve been there for that long length of time, what have you learned? What have you doing different now? Why, you know, why should you be given that raise because it’s important to remember that you are working for a company that’s going to be looking to turn over profit all the time. So it’s important for them to make sure that they can do that. And so you’ve got to be able to add value in some sort of way when asking for a raise or maybe you’re already adding value and so you feel you should be compensated. So it’s always very important. don’t really want to ask for a raise when you’re doing rubbish. Don’t bother. Just focus on what you’re doing. try and work out how you can do better. And then ask it when you are feeling confident you’re at the top of your game, that’s the best time to ask for a raise, that’s when you’re going to be most successful. And at the end the day, if they do say, No, say, Well, can we follow this up in three, six months? What can I do between now and then to change that, and get some sort of, you know, get something planned, booked in so that you have a clear pathway of what you need to do to get to where you want to be. And it’s great, you know, not just yourself, but for your own career progression in general, because the faster you go up the ladder, the more responsibility you have, the more it’s going to be interesting. And, and that’s also going to reflect hopefully, your salary as well. And statute within that company. Amazing.
Stephen Drew 45:43
Well said Well said. So we’ve got one fight, I was gonna say. So anyone in the audience that wants to ask us a question before we around, then, then do it. So Fatima says, Yeah, what if you were just asking for the minimum salary? Well, my advice is that it’s the minimum salary, you know, it should be there’s, I think, what’s it called the, the London living wage, you know, you should look at that as well. And what I will say Fatima is that you have a right to live, you’re hanging, you know, London is expensive. And you should remain to the employer that this is the minimum cost he requires to live. So don’t be ashamed about the number you’re asking for. Again, it goes back to that thing that we said at the start, where there’s a bit of money feels like an awkward subject, but you need to ask for a salary that is appropriate. And I would say Fatima, actually have a look at some of the salary guides online, because you’ll find that, you know, in architecture, maybe starting out is going to be close to minimum wage. For the hours you work, but actually it builds up from there and you should be higher than minimum wage. Is that fair to say? Well,
Will Ridgway 46:56
just think so. I think it’s a sort. It’s all about just, you know, going there and asking for it in the first place. It’s not going to come to you, you’ve got to go out and get it.
Stephen Drew 47:06
Amazing. Brilliant. So anyone wants to ask a quick question, then go for it. This is the last thing in a minute, we’re going to stop answering questions. I want to let everyone know where they can find me. And well, so we’ll focus is on architectural recruitment I’ve worked with Well, I think it’s great what he does in particular. So if you’re looking for a role, specifically message well, Ridgeway at McDonald’s and company, he is on LinkedIn to say when Ridgeway and don’t put the E n, they won’t pop up in a rich way. Without the E. It’s not a typo. That’s his name. He can help you out on recruitment, you can go to the website, but actually, you know what, just check out Well, on LinkedIn, he will pick up a conversation for you there. Oh, we have a question. And then I’ll say where to find me as well. And you’re on the architecture social well, as well. So you’re everywhere. Great advice, guys. Which strategy? Would you recommend setting up a meeting on the calendar and state that you discuss salary or go straight into the offices don’t give time to make counterargument? Good question. So I like to go straight in. And you know, you can put in the calendar as well. I think staff are trained to go straight in, you know, it can be difficult, but also make sure that you you do bring up your salary at your yearly review. I remember years ago, a company that I know used to say do not talk about salaries, new yearly review, I used to ignore it all the time, I used to talk about it, and they got the conversation. So always talk about them in your reviews, which you’re going to have. So first of all, make sure that you do get the reviews match. And then I would say that you will talk to your current employer. And if you want to be ultra, you just do not say straight away. You just say you’re gonna have a conversation and in the conversation, you talk about salary. That’s my preferred way because then they don’t know that you’re going to talk about salary and you have a frank conversation in the moment. And if you try once or twice and you can’t get that then I would say can we have a chat to talk about my career responsibilities? And renumeration. So you can’t don’t just say salary? Take the essence what I was saying, and try to put two or three things in there. So incentivize and have conversation because it’s one says, I just want to talk about my salary, I’m thinking, right, okay, which way it’s gonna go. But if he says, right, I want to talk about my career progression and salary. That’s much more interesting. So okay, positive. So that would be my advice, if you’re gonna have to get that in writing. Well, now, what do you think? Do you agree with that? Or do you offer imagine anything different?
Will Ridgway 49:41
I think, either or I think the preference is to see if you can do it there. And then, of course, if they’re not free to put up an argument, and they genuinely are not free, they’re gonna go into the meeting, you say, right, put it in the diary. But you know, they’re enigmail to come up with a counter argument. If your reasoning isn’t Very far, you know, the, it’s really hard to argue that your if your responsibilities have changed since the last time you got a salary increase, that’s really difficult argument to, to counter. And if they do counter it as probably be something like, we just can’t afford it. And then in that case, it’s probably unlikely you’ll ever get it. And you’ll have to look elsewhere anyway. So yeah, I think it’s I think evil evil or but if you could do it there and then amazing. But yeah, we’ll make sure you have your facts to back it up.
Stephen Drew 50:29
Yeah, I’m the first person to speak to is go to your wine manager. And like, if you if your line manager then says I’m not responsible for this kind of thing that take up with director, just batch it out, and you should be able to approach your line manager. That’s the beauty of speaking to your line manager. They’ve got much to hide at some point, because at some point, they will say Now, where was my line manager, we ask, How am I getting on with this thing? I go, yeah, yeah, it’s gone Really? Well. It was good. Okay. So now you’re free now for that conversation. So I got Yeah, I use and I will, I will say in life, it’s always better to do emails is people constructure emails, people can do that. You always want to catch people in the moment. So part of what I always learned from taking a job in recruitment, is that you have conversations with people on the phone, because it’s in the moment, are you trying to get a meeting? And the last thing you do is try to get an email because emails can be deleted, they can be forgotten, they can be misinterpreted. Can they can sound aggressive? You know, have you ever had that you seen people go, Oh, my gosh, should we read this? And then actually, it’s the tallness has been taken in the wrong way. Whereas a meeting is 10 a bazillion times better? Because you can you can capture it in the moment. Okay, amazing. So we covered a lot of ground. Well, you’re the man to talk to an architectural recruitment. I’m just gonna do a shout out to me because I actually work at Akron, Lowery. And what I do outside of the hours I work at Aqua, Larry is I do a lot of career coaching. I just had a new client today, we had five last month, it’s amazing, but hopefully going to be doing more and I’m going to have a little promotion code popping out soon for 10% off. So if you want to drop me a message for reduction on that, I’ll give you 10% and the car will become better at celebrating the first camp, the first few clients, but what do I do so I do career coaching, which can be anything from CVS portfolios, all the stuff online is always for free. Okay, we’re always these videos for free. But if you want dedicated one on one with me, you can book in an hour you can book in two hours or three hours, whatever you want. And I will sit down and I will fresh out your current situation I will work out with you the best way to go and you will get a tailored experience. You have my time. So check that out in the link below. And if you again, if you want to speak to well, you can find William McDonald company and best to message him online. So much absolute pleasure. I hope that’s helpful. Well, do you have anything else you’d like to add? Before we go?
Will Ridgway 53:00
I think we’ve covered it very well if I say so myself.
Stephen Drew 53:03
Ah, bravo. It’s kind of fun during the roleplay in the bed, but also equally terrifying. Yeah, it can go either way. Thank you so much everyone. I’m going to end the live stream feel free to contact we’re on LinkedIn and drop me a message and do check out the career coach and before I get too busy if I don’t say so myself as well just said so himself. Have a good week everyone. Take care.
Will Ridgway 53:30
Bye. Take care. Thank you. Bye.
Stephen Drew 53:33
A Bye Bye everyone. Bye bye. Bye bye. Buy buy still buy
Will Ridgway 53:40
buying so buy.
Stephen Drew 53:42
We’re still getting Hello by the stream never ending.
Will Ridgway 53:48
The show must go on
Stephen Drew 53:50
our lane. I gotta find out. I thought streams gone.
Having trouble connecting?
Will Ridgway 54:04
Yo, yo, yo, it’s that so it’s so bad and good scenarios fails and cancel it.
Stephen Drew 54:12
While we might be alive. Well, I’m going to just end the broadcast again.
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